Hi Jordyn, I love that you've been following and learning about yourself. It's funny, because I like to read lots of different interpretations, and always take them with a grain of salt, but when I first read "not of this world" ( I think in the Noel Tyl forum), I laughed. My natal Sedna is conjunct my South Node by less than one degree, in my 7th house. There you go, it's a joke from the universe, not of this world. Most likely why it jumped out at you as well, with your 12th house and Neptune connections. Very oceanic! I really like the image you've created here of the pressure and depth and inertia at the bottom of the sea forcing development. I have a cousin born in 1989, (our fathers were brothers, he and I each have a Sun-Pluto conjunction, though my Pluto is in Libra.) Thinking about him and father issues made me want to mention something else. Parental abandonment in myth and folktale is often so graphic or disturbing, and it can be taken quite literally, but just as often it is only symbolic of the necessary psychological separation from the parents one must take before beginning ones own journey of individuation and sprititual growth, as you've described.

Oh Helena, I have owned and loved Women Who Run With the Wolves for almost twenty years!  I haven’t taken it off the shelf in a while though; I’ll have to look up Skeleton Woman.  Thanks!  I haven’t yet read Melanie Reinhart’s book on Chiron, partly because for some reason it is relatively expensive here in the states, and I already own Barbara Hand Clow’s.  But it’s interesting that you mention it, because last night I was doing some analogical playing-around with the Sedna myth and the Chiron myth.  The two are working together in my chart, which started my thinking.   The first thing that came to mind was, of course, abandonment by a parent: Sedna by her father, Chiron by his mother. Next I noticed a connection to the oceans: Chiron’s mother was a sea nymph, and in some versions his wife was also.  They’re both half human, half animal: a centuar, and a mermaid. (Though the Inuit version seems nothing like a European mermaid—in their art, Sedna is often depicted with a whale tail, or a walrus body or tusks; large and intimidating.) Thinking about hands:  Chiron means “skilled hands” doesn’t it?  He worked with his hands to teach physical skills as well as intellectual knowledge.  Sedna’s hands were taken from her, eliminating her ability to do work in the physical world, which I think would create the necessity of her “work” to be done on an energetic or spiritual level. If I remember right, his skillful material service is part of why Barbara Hand Clow connected Chiron with Virgo. And Sedna is obviously Piscean. Of course they both had a severe wounding to a limb, a bodily crisis that not only changed the course and focus of their life, but their mortality.  Sedna became immortal, Chiron was already immortal, but chose to “die.” And in different ways they each created new life out of their wound: Sedna’s fingers and hands becoming sea creatures; Chiron’s exchange of his life to free Prometheus.  This is a bare-bones outline; I haven’t really developed my thinking on it yet. It is pretty interesting to me, hopefully to others too.   Thanks again for the recommendation, Helena, I will have to get hold of Melanie’s Chiron book soon. I do appreciate the time you've spent discussing this!

Thanks for all the information.  It’s helpful to me as I had not heard of Sedna at all until coming across a Substack post on her June 13th.  I’m going to post links to some other things I’ve found on Sedna, in case anyone wants to go further.  I don’t have more to say at this point as I am still making meaning out of my natal Sedna, whose position has been more revelatory to me than anything else in my own chart.  First a book. It is academic; I've borrowed it from my state university library.   The Sea Woman Sedna in Inuit Shamanism and Art in the Eastern Arctic  Frederic Laugrand and Jarich Oosten 2008 University of Alaska Press  Sedna in the old asteroid goddesses thread-scroll to post #14 https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,309.0.html Sedna in the Noel Tyl forum https://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?topic=4649.0 Some other astrologer’s takes https://melaniereinhart.com/Sedna.htm https://www.zanestein.com/keywords.html#Sedna A blog with many recent articles about the current collective transit of Sedna https://www.abiggerpicture.com/sedna

Helena, thank you for your thoughtful response, and the interesting photos. I do agree this myth is related to the idea of mermaids, and also selkies, and seems to me also closely related to the Brothers Grimm fairytale of The Handless Maiden. Many layers of insight into the natural feminine here. I like your idea of a seemingly dormant life force returning. I also see this myth as an underworld journey, similar to that of Innana, or Persephone. Sedna is maimed and forced to release the life she has known, sinks to the bottom of the sea, as you said, retreats to the realms of Neptune, and there becomes the goddess. Another part of Sedna’s myth not mentioned in the museum display is that in most versions her severed fingers and hands turn into seals, walruses, and whales-the sea mammals the Inuit hunters depend on. In this way, she does provide for her family, out of her own creative force and on her own terms, in spite of the betrayal wounding by the father. Some things about Sedna that I thought were of interest specifically to Evolutionary Astrology: • Sedna’s orbit is about 11,500 years, which to me seems related to the precession of the equinoxes or the cycle of the yugas. It’s about half. • On June 15, 2023, Sedna just ingressed into Gemini, having been in Taurus since 1966. This is related to so many other outer planets currently moving into air signs. She will be trine to Pluto moving into Aquarius for the next several years. • Sedna’s South Node is 24 degrees Leo, and her North Node is 23 degrees Aquarius. To me, this relates to her mythology—some versions say she was too vain or willful to accept any man, or follow her culture’s traditions (Leo). But once she has become the sea goddess, she provides abundantly for all in her community, as long as she is treated with respect (Aquarius). • With the length of her orbit, Sedna would have been in Sagittarius during the time historians believe humans began agriculture. This is around the same time as the transition from matriarchy to patriarchy. • Sedna’s next perihelion will be in 2076 in Cancer, making her aphelion 11,500 years ago in Capricorn. This does seem to be about the return of the natural feminine. I would be very interested to hear if Rose Marcus has more to say about Sedna. Technical questions: What orbs are used for asteroids, or small distant planetoids like Sedna? 1-3 degrees? In a natal chart, is it best to consider these objects only when in direct major aspect to personal planets, angles, or nodes? I know everyone has their preferences, but general recommendations?

Speaking of AI and Chatbots, does anyone know who "luckieday11" is? They just joined, and this post is generic astrology, not EA. Strange to start a separate post when we were just discussing these archetypes. I'm going to stay in the analog world and read paper books for the next few years...

I appreciate your clarity here Helena. It sounds like Jordyn was referring to some more obscure EA doctrine that I’m not familiar with yet. I was talking about the healthy, natural expression of archetypes, as you have understood. Hiding as an avoidance strategy due to trauma and fear is not what I meant. I had the impression Jordyn is working with Indigenous people, or those in an institutional system of some kind? Maybe I got that from a previous post, not sure. I was a little confused when I read her comment to me about her clients with Pluto in Scorpio in the 6th house. That would put their Pluto Polarity Point in Taurus in the 12th house, which to me suggests that the evolutionary intent of their souls requires connecting to Source and to their own inner re-source. To me that isn't hiding--a soul would need to step back from the world somewhat in order to do this work, and usually trauma creates the impetus for them to do so. I suspect this is why Jordyn’s original post resonated with me; I have the inverse placement (PPP in my 6th house). The thing is, cultural conditioning right now shames and labels heightened senses, different ways of perceiving, and inward focus, making a person feel they are just damaged rather than empowering them to develop and use these abilities. I hope EA is empowering people to understand that their soul will draw them on the correct path for them if they have the strength to follow it.

Thanks for bringing this up Jordan. I am taking the DVD course, but have only completed the first third so far, and have only looked at charts of friends and family. It hadn't occurred to me to look at these two archetypes in combination, but it makes a lot of sense considering the "higher octave" concept of the outer planets. And I actually have this emphasized in my own chart, so maybe I can contribute some personal experience to the discussion. First I want to comment on Scarlett Johansson's chart. This is a great example Rad, thank you. She's been quoted as saying she has a "fragile ego". With both Sun and Moon in her 12th house, Pisces on the 4th and Neptune in the first, it's surprising she has any "ego", in the popular sense of the word. That looks to me like a heavy dose of potential disillusionment with home and inner security, with emotional connections, with personal identity and self-image, with personal purpose and meaning. However, her lunar north node in Taurus in the 6th, and Venus in Capricorn in the 2nd would seem to make working for material, earthly security a very important value for her, in compensation for the watery dissolution of so many other ways of feeling grounded. To me this suggests that operating in the “lower octave” Venus helps to manage the experience of the “higher octave” Neptune. How this signature shows up in my chart: without too much detail, I have two planets in Libra in my 12th, ascendant and Sun also in Libra, lunar south node in Taurus in the 7th, Neptune and Venus both in the 2nd house. My experience; I wouldn’t say I have social anxiety, I just don’t feel well in crowds and don’t find many people I can relate to, but I make no attempts to blend in. I lived in a remote rural area for ten years, where I saw only my immediate family for weeks at a time. The few friends I have now are used to my frequent hermiting. I think the expression of this combination of archetypes has something to do with listening. Venus/Taurus/2nd listens internally, to their own inner values and resources, unlike Venus/Libra/7th who listens more externally, to others. Neptune as the all-encompassing higher octave of Venus listens to the inner and outer, past and future, to the totality of all consciousness; both Source, and the collective creation. For someone with this synthesized signature of both planets, the volume of what they hear can be overwhelming, especially as planets in the 12th tend to act subconsciously. I don’t consider myself psychic, as it’s not under my control, but the overall sensory input of others’ information is a lot to handle. Venus has quite selective hearing; Neptune is boundless and less discerning. For consensus and most individualized people, the outer planets are experienced as external forces and not felt as integral parts of one own’s psyche until a certain development of consciousness is reached. So the average person with a strong Neptunian & Venusian emphasis might feel painfully sensitive, be overwhelmed by the noise, and want to hide or have survival security fears. “Hiding” may sometimes also be an attempt for them to avoid the dissolving-ego effect of the 12th. For those conscious of what it is they are hearing, and myself personally, I think of it as a need for sanctuary and cloister. Privacy, withdrawal, and quiet are necessary for the deep listening and subconscious/spiritual work required by this combination. That made me think of another example, an older male relative of mine, unknown birth time so no houses, but his natal Neptune, Venus, and Moon were all conjunct in Libra. Always withdrawn, in his mid-thirties he became a total recluse, and eventually must have felt too sensitive for this world, as he took himself out of it in a very Neptunian way. I didn’t realize I had so much to say! I hope this sparks some insights. It would be interesting to discuss other expressions of blended archetypes.

Thanks for your response Rad. So determining the phase of a planet in aspect to the lunar nodes depends only on whether the node is moving toward or away from the planet; the planet is always the baseline, without accounting for the speed of movement? This is different than determining the aspect phase between two planets, which uses the slower moving planet as a baseline. May I verify with one more example? If Jupiter is at 0 degrees Gemini, it is in a new phase semi-sextile to the South Node at 3 degrees Taurus, and also to Chiron at 0 degrees Taurus. Jupiter at 0 degrees Gemini is in a full phase inconjunct to the North Node at 3 degrees 34 minutes Scorpio, but it is in a gibbous phase inconjunct to Mars at 3 degrees 9 minutes Scorpio Is this correct?

Thanks for clarifying; that makes more sense.