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How to determine phasal relationships

Ok, so I've read different things. Usually, with Mercury at 16º Libra...to determine the aspect to my Uranus at 18º Sag, I'd start at Mercury and count clockwise to arrive at the sextile. I've read you should start in the slowing moving planet (in this case Uranus) and count clockwise to the faster one (Mercury)....but I also read you should count counter-clockwise. I mostly subscribe to EA...the only book I've actually read about it being the first Pluto book by JWG. In the School of Evolutionary Astrology forum, (on this page https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php?topic=648.0) quoting something JWG wrote it's written : "Phases are determined by measuring the distance in degrees from the slower moving planet counterclockwise to the faster moving planet. " 1 - I was just dming an astrologer on youtube who said we should start at the slower planet and go clockwise, which would make my Mercury/Uranus a LAST QUARTER sextile, which, up until now I always measured as a first quarter one. So what is the rule, really in EA?:) 2 -I also use asteroids A LOT. Am I to treat them as always faster than the major planets? Is there any resource where I can see which asteroids are faster than others? For example, if I'm determining the phase between Persephone and Hephaestos ...I wouldn't know how to do it. (and yes, I find asteroids extremely important and valuable) 3- The last question is...I have no idea where I've gotten that idea, but with the Mercury/Uranus aspect I learned to interpret the aspect as 'Mercury' being affected by Uranus.....so my communication and process of information bein uranian.....but in EA is Uranus considered to also being affected by Mercury? Up until now I always considered the "least powerful" (/faster) planet as the one being influenced by the larger (/slower) one. 4- As an example, I've attached my own chart, and would like to know what kind of sesquiquadrate my Saturn is doing to my NN. Do we consider the NN stationary to determine the phase?

Thank you so much for the input! :) All the best. <3

8 comments

Replies (8)

Ari Moshe Wolfe

Mar 23, 2023

Hi Jean! Welcome to this forum. Since I was that astrologer, I'll answer you here ...

1 - I was just dming an astrologer on youtube who said we should start at the slower planet and go clockwise, which would make my Mercury/Uranus a LAST QUARTER sextile, which, up until now I always measured as a first quarter one. So what is the rule, really in EA?:)

I didn't say to go clockwise, but rather in the NATURAL direction of the zodiac, which is actually counter clockwise.

Ok, so I've read different things. Usually, with Mercury at 16º Libra...to determine the aspect to my Uranus at 18º Sag, I'd start at Mercury and count clockwise to arrive at the sextile. I've read you should start in the slowing moving planet (in this case Uranus) and count clockwise to the faster one (Mercury)....but I also read you should count counter-clockwise.

So, to clarify this. Start with Uranus and you will move all the way around the zodiac till you get to Mercury. The phase and aspect is a last quarter phase sextile.

2 -I also use asteroids A LOT. Am I to treat them as always faster than the major planets? Is there any resource where I can see which asteroids are faster than others? For example, if I'm determining the phase between Persephone and Hephaestos ...I wouldn't know how to do it. (and yes, I find asteroids extremely important and valuable)

The way to think of it is that we are actually tracking the movement of any two points IN TIME. So whether it's an asteroid or a planet, we are looking at how far any two points have separated since the LAST conjunction in time. So the same rule would apply no matter which two points we are looking at. The faster will always be separating from the slower since they were last conjunct one another.

I don't personally know of any resources that track speed of all the asteroids, but I'm sure you can always search online.

3- The last question is...I have no idea where I've gotten that idea, but with the Mercury/Uranus aspect I learned to interpret the aspect as 'Mercury' being affected by Uranus.....so my communication and process of information bein uranian.....but in EA is Uranus considered to also being affected by Mercury? Up until now I always considered the "least powerful" (/faster) planet as the one being influenced by the larger (/slower) one.

The EA perspective considers what the planetary phase REFLECTS relative to the reality of the soul itself. Each phase reflects a particular intention that is being played out that itself reflects the specific soul/karmic reality of the soul that lead to the manifestation of that particular planetary phase in this life.

So instead of thinking of it as one planet affecting another, it's more a matter of a particular intention being played out by way of these two planets and what they each represent relative to the soul's reality. Uranus = transformation, freedom from the known, the individuality of the soul itself. Mercury = how we logically organize reality in our minds, short term memory, what we can name and classify. There are many ways we can work out understanding these two together, but in the end it's not about "affects" but rather a statement of what is being worked out in this life.

4- As an example, I've attached my own chart, and would like to know what kind of sesquiquadrate my Saturn is doing to my NN. Do we consider the NN stationary to determine the phase?

The phase between your Saturn and NN is a full phase sesquiquadrate. A 2 degree orb just before the beginning of the disseminating phase.

To determine the phasal relationship between a node and a planet, put your finger on the planet in question and move backwards through the zodaic (clocwise) until you reach the node you are calculating the phase with. That's just one way. You can also start with the node and move forwards (counter clockwise) until you reach the planet in question.

To understand this, just remember that the nodes move backwards. So we are again just tracking the degree of separation that has taken place in time with that node and the planet since they were last together. If you have an ephemeris or an astrology software that can animate charts, it's a helpful pedagogy to look backwards and forward to see this actually happening in time.

Some of this might be a new way of thinking of planetary relationship. So feel free to take your time with this. In the archives there is a lot of repetition of the teachings on phases and aspects too. And feel free to ask more if you have any questions on any of this.

Jean Lundi

Mar 24, 2023

Thanks Ari! Most enlightening. I basically spent the last two weeks doing "counterclockwise" as if it were clockwise in my head....if you can believe it ! I sometimes mess these things in my head ^_^' I get it now. I wonder if this very error would be a possible manifestation of Mercury/Uranus---short term memory trauma or something haha :D 1 - So, I got the general rule, and the nodes....but in the case of my Sun/ASC balsamic conjunction (which I know is balsamic due to seeing JWG mentioning it somewhere)...if the Sun is always static and we start counting counterclockwise...then I'm assuming the ASC and MC is where we REALLY start counting the phase, even in relation with the Sun, right? Because if I were to start at the sun it would mean it was a new phase conjunction. So the Sun square to the MC is also a first quarter square, correct? 2 - So just to see if I got the rule : - My Mars quincux Moon is a gibbous (~150º) phase one. - But my Jupiter quincux Mercury is a FULL inconjunct. - My Pluto sesquiquadrate Moon is a full phase one (just like the Saturn/NN) - My Eris opposition Mercury is a full opposition since I start counting in Eris (slower planet) at 16'14º Aries and end at 16'51 Libra. - And against what I've always believed.... my Mars square Mercury is actually NOT a first quarter square......but a last quarter phase one. - My Sun square Neptune is a first quarter square because I start counting counterclockqise at the Sun. I'm just starting with this phasal thingy, but I feel it's where I'm finally going to get the information I've been yearning for after 3+ years dabbling in astrology....which is feedback from my soul on where I am and headed to. 3 - Now the issue is.....save for the information in 'Pluto I' what is my best bet in trying to INTERPRET what these aspects mean , accurately, after I've determined the phasal relationship?? For example, based on my limited astrological understanding, with my Saturn full sesquiquadrate NN ...I'll be 'forced' in this life to do Saturn in a way that truly makes me fit in with the consensus (which probably speaks to this "world on my shoulders" feeling I've had since I was born and rejection of my instinctual expression due to not fitting in)....................the paragraph on the balsamic conjunction doesn't give me that clear of a clue what my Sun/ASC conjunction might mean (using it as an example). The conjunction is ending the whole cycle......and starting something new ...........so relative to how I "creatively actualize my purpose" (Sun)......this would correlate to all the frustration I've felt around finding my purpose in this life because I'm meant to "spiritualize" (balsamic) this relationship by withdrawing within? Thanks a lot for the help! :) It is greatly appreciated. I'm not ready to dedicate my life to astrology, but I think I have some facility with it...but I'm really just going on what I can find online and doing it totally on my own. Feels like I'm reinventing the wheel sometimes....but recently I'm starting to get some real ahas. I've had the most confusing life ever....so clarity is a biggy for me....and seeing my struggle reflected clearly is what brings me the most peace.......as most other avenues of communication with 'spirit' seem to fail me kinda. Thanks again! All the very best <3

Ari Moshe Wolfe

Mar 24, 2023

Hi Jean,

1 - So, I got the general rule, and the nodes....but in the case of my Sun/ASC balsamic conjunction (which I know is balsamic due to seeing JWG mentioning it somewhere)...if the Sun is always static and we start counting counterclockwise...then I'm assuming the ASC and MC is where we REALLY start counting the phase, even in relation with the Sun, right? Because if I were to start at the sun it would mean it was a new phase conjunction. So the Sun square to the MC is also a first quarter square, correct?

I don't have an answer to this myself. @Rad will you please respond to this?

2 - So just to see if I got the rule :

- My Mars quincux Moon is a gibbous (~150º) phase one.

- But my Jupiter quincux Mercury is a FULL inconjunct.

- My Pluto sesquiquadrate Moon is a full phase one (just like the Saturn/NN) - My Eris opposition Mercury is a full opposition since I start counting in Eris (slower planet) at 16'14º Aries and end at 16'51 Libra.

- And against what I've always believed.... my Mars square Mercury is actually NOT a first quarter square......but a last quarter phase one.

- My Sun square Neptune is a first quarter square because I start counting counterclockqise at the Sun.

Yes to all, except your Mars Mercury is disseminating phase square.

Regarding the interpretation, it's not something we are doing in this forum with rare exception. One it's a boundary, and two also because we can't competently interpret parts of the chart outside of it's context with the whole. In case you haven't done so yet - please read the guidelines so you can get a clear understanding of how we are holding this space here.

With love,

Ari Moshe

Jean Lundi

Mar 24, 2023

Replying to

Right, disseminating phase square. Makes sense. I forgot there are 4 kinds of squares. As for the interpretation, I'm not looking for an interpretation per se...just how would one go about finding more in depth information on one's own? Is there any JWG book that goes in depth? Anything by Steven Forrest? What can I do on my end to get closer to a clear interpretation? Thanks again for the help. Makes a huge difference. :)

Ari Moshe Wolfe

Mar 25, 2023

Replying to

In terms of resources to learn or grasp the specific configurations in your chart. I'd suggest studying Jeffrey Wolf Green astrology. Either through the DVD correspondence course which will take you through the whole teaching, or through other teachers who are offering courses. A personal reading or tutoring session where you can address these specific questions on your chart in a more solid container might be helpful too.

I'll offer some guidelines for your question on the sesquiquadrate:

with my Saturn full sesquiquadrate NN ...I'll be 'forced' in this life to do Saturn in a way that truly makes me fit in with the consensus (which probably speaks to this "world on my shoulders" feeling I've had since I was born and rejection of my instinctual expression due to not fitting in)

Without looking at your chart, I'll offer a general perspective for approaching this aspect. Remember that all aspects to the NN speak to how the soul will be integrating and working towards the evolutionary direction of the NN. Saturn is how we each condition our reality and become self-responsible for our own choices/long term conditioning in this life according to our soul's evolutionary needs.

Saturn in relationship to the NN will of course point directly to the necessary work, limitations, discipline, conditioning etc. that is relevant to our ongoing evolutionary purpose.

So in applying Saturn to the NN via the full phase sesquiquadrate we'd consider what is the meaning of the full phase sesquiquadrate and of course look at the signs/houses and rulers of the signatures involved. Here's a quote I found from an old thread on aspects, from a lecture JWG gave:

The disseminating phase correlates to the totality of the sociological cultural system in which you find yourself. In our time, everything that America is correlates to the disseminating phase. All possible lifestyles, beliefs, values and all that which if impossible - disseminating phase. It is the highest degree of socialization, the absolute need to disseminate your purpose which was initiated all the way back at the new phase conjunction. Not just amongst friends and close relationship, but in a full blown integration within the world - job or career.

When you pass the inconjunct, you become aware of what you are and what you can do and you go out and do it. The problem is that the sesquisquare is the last initiation, the last social ritual, social rite toward that goal. You have realized the you are meant to be a stockbroker and you have a powerful vision of wanting to be a stockbroker. In this aspect, you have a powerful vision of how to do it in a unique way, in a way that will actually change the social system that you are about to participate in, now being the world of a stockbroker. At the full phase sesquisquare, until you learn the ways and the means of the stock brokering world, all their little happy rituals, all the things that they do, the consensus of the stockbroker world. Until you learn that, you will be rejected in the sesquisquare full phase. You will be perceived as willful and as threatening to the established status quo. The security is now found through consensus and disseminating phase. The challenge is to acknowledge how that system is working, how the consensus is working, not in the way of becoming it, but in a way of making it work for you. That is the enlightened approach. The problem in most cases is the becoming - that is the easier path. It creates and leads to less social and individual stress, does it not? That's the voice that says, "If you can't beat them, join them." The challenge is to join them without them knowing that you haven't really joined. After all, if things are left in the consensus state forever, it is just going to crystallize and die off. We have to have new blood. That is what this aspect is for, new input, new visions. The key word for disseminating phase is just that - to disseminate, to share, to give.

See the whole thread. I think the first page is probably the most helpful: https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,360.0.html

Jean Lundi

Mar 25, 2023

Replying to

Aye that's roughly what I meant when I said I'll have to do Saturn in a way that makes me fit in. :) I tend to struggle learning things in a manner most courses or teachers work(Chiron in Gem, Sat,Ura,Nep in the 3rd). And I find the financial investment prohibitive. Specially since so much of my astrology journey has been to totally unlearn what someone told me before, so it's hard to determine who or what to focus on. It's probably best I stick to the material that is acessible online and let it percolate and possibly invest in a couple of one-on-one sessions with an astrologer I resonate with later on. :) I didn't know the information was so hard to come by when I started investigating. Until then I'll keep exploring what I can acess online. I appreciate the help . Thank you very much :)

mail.salenajane

Mar 30, 2023

Phasal relationships in astrology refer to the relationship between the moon and the sun in a person's birth chart. There are eight phases or stages of the moon-sun relationship, which are determined by the angle between the sun and moon at the time of a person's birth.

To determine phasal relationships, you will need to calculate the degrees between the sun and moon in your birth chart. Here are the steps to follow:

Get a copy of your birth chart. You can obtain this from a professional astrologer or by using a reliable online birth chart calculator.
Locate the position of the sun and moon in your chart. The sun is represented by a circle with a dot in the center, while the moon is represented by a crescent shape.
Determine the degrees between the sun and moon. To do this, subtract the degree of the sun from the degree of the moon. If the result is a negative number, add 360 degrees to it.

www.drkatyjane.com

Ari Moshe Wolfe

Mar 30, 2023

Replying to

Hi Katy Jane,

Jeffrey Wolf Green taught phases between planets, not just Sun and Moon. Also, I want to make sure you understand that all content/teachings discussed here relate back to the EA teaching of Green, as this forum is intended for helping students to learn it.

In this thread, the archived message board is referenced where you can find a lot of helpful info on planetary phases.

I’m on my phone, otherwise I’d link it - if you go to the main forum page you’ll find a link to the EA archives, as we’ll as the forum guidelines that explains what this place is all about if you have not already read it.